Novembar 30, 2024, 07:56:41 posle podne
Dobrodošli, Gost. Molim vas prijavite se ili se registrujte. Da niste izgubili svoj aktivacioni mejl?
419.393 poruka u 18.768 tema - 20.980 članova - Poslednji član: mc1212
X3MShop banner

Autor Tema: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!  (Pročitano 4619 puta)

Van mreže Pedja_Petrovic

  • Admin
  • Super-heavyweight Member
  • ********
  • Poruke: 45.358
  • THE GENERAL OF ARMY
    • Ogistra Suplement Shop
VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« poslato: Maj 16, 2011, 07:52:30 posle podne »
Ovaj clanak mi je jedan od omiljenih pa sam odlucio da ne ostane mrtvo slovo na  papriu I nekom casopisu ili slicno

 

Kada se radi o nutricionizmu za body building I trudu da se odredi koliko proteina,UH ili masti treba da se unosi,stvari mogu biti I te kako zbunjujuce za nase citaoce

 

.Aako pitate tamo neke ‘gurue” ,oni ce vam reci das u UH potpuno beskorisni I da ih potpuno treba izbaciti.

 

Drugi ce da vam kazu da je visok unos Uh potreban za maximalan anabolizam.

 

Stara skola bodi bildera bi mogla da vam kaze da je jedina stvar koja je bitna, unosenje miljardi mg proteina po kg tel tezine.

 

Oni ce vam takodjer reci da drugi koji imaju drugacije misljenje od njih,nemaju pojma.U stvari prilagodniji naslov za ovaj clanak bi mogao biti “MISLJENJA SU KAO GUZICE.SVI IH IMAJU I SVI MISLE DA TUDJA VISE SMRDI”.

 

Da budte sigurno,u puno navarta se lose osecam zbog nasih citaoca,jer dobijaju mnogo protivrecnih infomacija iz jako puno razlcitih izvora.Pa ko je onda u pravu,dali bi trebali da potpuno izbacite Uh I dap unite svoj bazen sa maslinovim uljem radi boljeg potapanja u zdravim mastima?

 

Dali bi trebali da jedete toliko puno proteina,dali bi trebali da podignete novi kredit da bi pokrili troskove za teletinu koju jedete?

 

Ili bi trebali da jedete toliko UH, da provedete pola dana u delirijumu insulinkse kome?

 

Pa,tu sam da vam to resim.svi ti gurui su u pravu…I u isto vreme NI JEDAN NIJE U PRAVU.

Kakvo sokantno beskorisno otkrice ha?

 

Ali pre nego sto kontaktirate BOSS BLACKMAN-a I zatrazite moju glavu ,dopustite mi da vam objasnim sta sam hteo da kazem.

Umesto da nasa tela imaju svi iste metabolicke puteve,nasa tela su veoam razlicita od osobe do osobe I u njihovim reagovinjima na razne makronutricionisticike profile.Moda je to zasto u cak I u naucnim okruzenjima vidimo prilicne razlike u rezultatima istpitivanja,koja izucavaju razlictie makronutricionisticike profile. Povecani br infomracija o polimorfizmu gena I razlicte individualne tolerancije na lekove I nutricinosticke elemente,stvaraju jasnu sliku d ace u narednim godinima nutricinosticki saveti morati da se promene od generlanih preporuka do specificnih,namanjenih prepruka ZA POJEDINCA .

 

Prakticni primer ovoga o cemu pricam bi bili slucajevi nekoliko stvarnih klijeneta sa kojima sam radio.

Hajde da im samo promenim imena u John ili Joe da bi im zastitio privatnost.Obojica,John I Joe su bili priblizno istih godina (43 tj 47 god),iste visine (160cm) I grubo iste tezine,pre pocetka priprema za njihova takmicenja (oko 85 kg).Obojica su zavrsila an istoj tezini pre samog takmicenja (oko 72kg odnosno 75kg). Obojica su imali slicnu strukutru I zapoceli pripreme pri skoro istoj kolicini masnih naslaga. Kao trener, ako pogledate njihovu statistiku na komadicu papira I ako partite uopstene prepruke I formule za unos B,UH I M,onda ce verovatno obojica da dobiju da prate slicne programe-ali posle rada sa svakim od njih,po nekoliko meseci,znao sam da njih dvojica imaju razlicitu toleranciju na makronutricionisticke elemnte,pogtovo UH.

 

John nikada nije morao da spusta unos Uh ispod 250 gr dnevno,a bio je u stanju da bude potpuno misicav. Sa druge strane Joe nije imao tako dobru toleranciju na UH,pa smo njemu morali da ih spustimo na samo 70 gr dnevno. Ali na kraju,obojica su postali misiciavi I obojica su osvojili takmicenja na kojima su nastupali.

 

Sada imam jos jako puno primera drugih klijenata,koji imaju istu pricu.

Radio sam sa ljudima koji su psotali spremni za takmicenje,sa cak 400 gr UH dnevno !!!

Radio sam I sa takvima,koji su morali da smanje unos UH na 25 gr dnevno da bi bili dovoljno spremni!!!

 

To je ogromna razlika !!!

Kao sto smo ovde videli,precizno pronalaznje gde pripadate u makronutricinonistickom kontiniumu,moze napraviti razliku izmedju pobede I toga da budete samo jos jedan punacak mladic na pozornici za koga se svi pitaju: “JEL SE TI SALIS???”

 

Ovo je razlog zbog koje se uvek cerekam kada cujem da ljudi pricaju “kako sun a Lyne Norton dijeti” ili kako “koriste Lyne Noroton programe za dijetu.”

NE POSTOJI TAKVA STVAR.

Ono sto je dobro za moj metabolizam,ne mora da znaci da je dobro za vas.

Radio sam sa preko 500 ljudi u posljenje tri godine I svi su imali razlcite planove,barem smisljeno zasnovano na tome kako reaguju na razne manipulacije unosa proteina/UH/M.

Za neke srecnike,odredili smo da je njihova tolerancija na UH veoma dobra I za jednog srecnika to je znacilo kozumiranje oko 820gr UH dnevno van sezone a DA OSTANE MRSAV.

Za drgue je to znacilo da moraju da imaju viusok unos B,veci unos M,a srednji ili nizak unos UH,cak I van sezone,da bi spreicli prekomerno dobijanje sala.

 

Tako da,ako cujete da neko prica o “Lyne Norton programu dijete”.budite sigurno da oni nemaju pojma o cemu pricaju!!

Kao sto smo o tome prethodno pricali izlgeda da svaki guru favorizuje odredjene makronutricionistikce elemnte I odredjenu vrstu dijete I pokusava da je primeni na svaku mogucu osobu.

Kao sto smo upravo pokazali,to je upravo POGRESAN nacin da se ove stvari rade. Dali postoje ljudi koji podnose malo UH a mnogo M? NARAVNO!!

 

Dali postoje ljudi koji prate program sa malo UH,smezuraju kao testiti 70 godisnjaka potppljeni u hladnu vodu? MOZETE DA SE KLADITE DA POSTOJE!!

 

Svi makronutriconisticki elementi imaju svoje koristi :najveca stvar je URAVNOTEZITI IH I TAKO IH UCINITI KORISNIM ZA SVAKI POJEDINACNI METABOLIZAM.

Pa,pre nego sto krenemo dalje hadje da brzo pogledamo koristi svake od njih.

 

PROTEIN:necu vas zamarti sa tim kako su proteini neophodni.osim ako je ovo prvi MD koji ste uzeli da citate,znate das u proteini vazni.Pokazalo se da obroci bogati proteinima povecavaju sintezu protean I misicima,vise nego “adekvatne” kolicine proteina.proteini takdojer imaju TERMOGENETICKI EFEKAT,pa se pokazalo da dijete bogate proteinima izazvuaju vece gubitke masti,u poredjenu sa dijetama sa normalnim kolicnima proteina. Ali moze da se desi da imate previse dobre stvari,pa morate da vodite racuna da odrzavate proteine u ravnotezi.

 

UH:povecavaju misicnui glikogen I stite hranjive I misicne proteine od oxidacije I koriscenja kao energije.Ovo spsava dragocene AK od hranjivih proteina za potrebu izgradnje misica. Dalje,pokazxalo se da Uh imaju sinergisticki efekat sa hranjivim protenima na sintezu MISICNIH PROTEINA. Pokazalo se I da insulin smanjuje razgradnju proteina.Pa kao sto vidite UH stvarno imaju korsnih strana,ali moraju biti kontrolisani da bi se sprecio DOBITAK MASTI.

 

MASTI: masti snabdevaju energijom I vazne su u celijskom integrititetu,prometu I mogu stititi proteine.

 

S toga,veliko pitanje je:kako se odredjuje KO GDE PRIPADA?-STA JE OPTIMUM ZA VAS ORGANIZAM?-Pa biti cu iskren I reci cu da jednostavno ne postoji za probavanje,dokumentaciju ili strpljenje.

 

Probajte razlicte stvari I vidite kako vase telo reaguje,ali pazite da budete dovoljno STRPLJIVI da svemu date dovljno vremena.

Ovo takodjer znaci,pracenje vaseg unosa proteina,UH I M,I dokumentovanje vasih reakcija na razne makronutricinisticke elemnte. Znam da za neke od vas to zvuci kao puno posla,ali hajde da vam kazem nesto-AKO ZELITE DA IZGRADITE LEPO TELO,ONDA BI VAM BOLJE BILO DA SE NAORUZATE STRPLJENJEM I NAPORNO RADITE jer ako se bojite brojanja makronutricionistikich elementa,onda sve sto mogu da vam kazem je –DA ZABORAVITE NA SVE.

Pored toga razni programi na interntu pomazu da partite vase unose na veoma lak nacin,u poredjenu sa onim kada sam ja poceo sa svim tim I morao da koristim papir I olovku.

Tako da za tacan makronutricinosticki unos,necu moci da vam pomgonem sa tacnim kolicnima koje su optimalne za vas,a svi koji kazu da odrede za svakoga I to sve jos stave u clanak su ako nista drugo-AROGANTNI.

 

Najbolje sta mogu da vam kazem je da vam dam neke uopstene prepruke koje ce vas drzati u pravom smeru.uopsteno,jedite dovljno rpoteina,da maximizirate anabolizam,dovljno masti da dobijete dovljan unos masnih kiselina I drzite UH sto je moguce vise a da pri tom drzite salo!!

Kao sto smo ranije rekli,tacne kolicine variraju od osobe do osobe.

 

Preuzeto  iz casopisa MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT maj 2010

Van mreže tenssa

  • Super-heavyweight Member
  • ******
  • Poruke: 3.963
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #1 poslato: Maj 16, 2011, 08:02:09 posle podne »
Odlicno Pedja!

Van mreže Swalbr

  • Lightweight Member
  • ***
  • Poruke: 258
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #2 poslato: Maj 16, 2011, 09:50:19 posle podne »
Mnogo dobar tekst.

Van mreže MSH

  • Minimumweight Member
  • **
  • Poruke: 50
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #3 poslato: Maj 17, 2011, 09:22:08 posle podne »
Nemojte sada 100 postova hvale nego dodajte nesto pametno, nastavite, dopunite...
A i ja cu pokusati

Van mreže Lazar Popovic

  • Cruiserweight Member
  • *****
  • Poruke: 1.140
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #4 poslato: Maj 17, 2011, 09:47:19 posle podne »
Pedja mozes li ti da nam navedes 2 takmicara da budu slicne gradje itd kao gore u tekstu...a da sa razlicitom kolicinom UH se spremaju za takmicenje,jedan sa velikom,jedan sa malom.
Cisto ono informativno,ako moze.

Van mreže nikadsenepredajem

  • Light Heavyweight Member
  • ****
  • Poruke: 717
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #5 poslato: Maj 18, 2011, 09:12:48 pre podne »
to je ono o cemu se zapravo prica,osluskuj svoje telo...radis masu sa jednom dozom u.h.,ako vidis da ti krecu da ti se gomilaju masti u.h. smanjis,a broj proteina je uvek otprilike optimalan...zato se i na masi preporucuju varijacije u.h.,kada imas kardio na masi i kada radis trening u teretani koji je malo jaci(noge i slabija misicna partija(ovo je po meni da ne bi otisao u katabolizam da obezbedis telo u.h.)),taj dan ubacis malo vise u.h.,danima kada ne vezbas ili kada radis neku partiju koja ti je jaka tj misic koji ti brze napreduje od ostalih smanjis broj u.h.,ali u principu variras...i nema druge,rezultati ce biti vidljivi,a u ono sto sam siguran je da kada si na masi,rotacije su dobre bilo kome,i sto je najbitnije ne gomilaju puno masnih naslaga...a optimalan unos proteina,pa to je otprilike da ti se ni u jednom obroku ne spusta ispod 15ak-20g,sve zavisi...od viska proteina mozes dobiti masne naslage,ali po meni to je onda veca kolicina mesa i jaja koju i sam tvoj stomak oseti...
« Poslednja izmena: Maj 18, 2011, 09:16:20 pre podne nikadsenepredajem »
Beat the genetics!

Van mreže Pedja_Petrovic

  • Admin
  • Super-heavyweight Member
  • ********
  • Poruke: 45.358
  • THE GENERAL OF ARMY
    • Ogistra Suplement Shop
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #6 poslato: Maj 18, 2011, 12:04:11 posle podne »
Pedja mozes li ti da nam navedes 2 takmicara da budu slicne gradje itd kao gore u tekstu...a da sa razlicitom kolicinom UH se spremaju za takmicenje,jedan sa velikom,jedan sa malom.
Cisto ono informativno,ako moze.

mogu
IGOR MILANOVIC i JA
igor je masina za sagorevanje UH i moze da ih jede u prilicno velikoj kolicini dok sam ja uvek morao da budem oprezan sa Uh

Van mreže Pedja_Petrovic

  • Admin
  • Super-heavyweight Member
  • ********
  • Poruke: 45.358
  • THE GENERAL OF ARMY
    • Ogistra Suplement Shop
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #7 poslato: Maj 18, 2011, 12:04:38 posle podne »
to je ono o cemu se zapravo prica,osluskuj svoje telo...radis masu sa jednom dozom u.h.,ako vidis da ti krecu da ti se gomilaju masti u.h. smanjis,a broj proteina je uvek otprilike optimalan...zato se i na masi preporucuju varijacije u.h.,kada imas kardio na masi i kada radis trening u teretani koji je malo jaci(noge i slabija misicna partija(ovo je po meni da ne bi otisao u katabolizam da obezbedis telo u.h.)),taj dan ubacis malo vise u.h.,danima kada ne vezbas ili kada radis neku partiju koja ti je jaka tj misic koji ti brze napreduje od ostalih smanjis broj u.h.,ali u principu variras...i nema druge,rezultati ce biti vidljivi,a u ono sto sam siguran je da kada si na masi,rotacije su dobre bilo kome,i sto je najbitnije ne gomilaju puno masnih naslaga...a optimalan unos proteina,pa to je otprilike da ti se ni u jednom obroku ne spusta ispod 15ak-20g,sve zavisi...od viska proteina mozes dobiti masne naslage,ali po meni to je onda veca kolicina mesa i jaja koju i sam tvoj stomak oseti...

bravo

Van mreže aleksandar84

  • Middleweight Member
  • ****
  • Poruke: 313
Odg: VELIKA MAKRONUTRICIONISTICKA DEBATA!!
« Odgovor #8 poslato: Maj 18, 2011, 12:47:21 posle podne »
Evo i drugog dela

The Great Macronutrient Debate Part II
By Layne Norton


No Juice Bodybuilding


"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it."

—Joseph Joubert

In last month's column, we talked about the many theories present in regard to optimal protein, carbohydrate, and fat intake. The take-away message was that what is optimal for one person may not be optimal for another, and anyone who only suggests one specific range of any nutrient for every person is bound to have problems, due to the differences in individual metabolisms from person to person.

So how do you figure out what is best? That's what we are all after in the end— optimization. We want to know that our efforts in the gym day in and day out are not being sabotaged by what we are doing in the kitchen, and vice versa.

In the case of 'the great macronutrient debate,' I can confidently say that there really is no substitute for experimentation and documentation. Over time, you need to be willing to change things around to see how your body responds to various manipulations in protein, carbohydrate, and fat. You want to change often enough so that you can try out various protocols, but you also want to give your body long enough to adapt to a protocol, to see if it actually works.

For example: you are used to a very low-carb diet, and then decide one day to switch to a much higher-carbohydrate intake (say 400 grams per day, as opposed to 100 grams per day). I can most definitely assure you that you will feel like garbage and look like garbage for the first few weeks, until your body adjusts to the shift. So if you changed that drastically and then saw that you looked like garbage the first week, you might think that you were very carb-sensitive, when in reality, you just did not give yourself enough time to see any benefits from the new protocol.

While experimentation is very important, my job is to make things a bit easier for you, not to say, "Just see what works for you, bro." While things are very different from individual to individual, there are a few factors than can provide insight into what range of macronutrient intake may be best for you as an individual. Those factors include lean body mass, age, training status, and body type. So let's take a look at each of these factors and see how they affect our recommendations.

Lean Body Mass. This one is pretty simple. All things being equal, people who have more muscle tissue will tend to burn more calories, since muscle is a very metabolically-active tissue. In addition to requiring more total caloric intake during a bulking phase, they will also be able to tolerate more calories during a cutting phase.

I'm sure we've all read about a few IFBB pros who eat 4,000 calories per day, while getting shredded for a show. I'm sure if they weighed 180 pounds versus 280 pounds, their body would not tolerate that level of calorie intake nearly as well. Additionally, because skeletal muscle contains the densest concentrations of mitochondria (organelle of the cell, where much of oxidation and energy production take place), they will also be able to tolerate a greater carbohydrate intake generally.

Furthermore, because they have more muscle, a larger person will also be able to store more glycogen than a smaller person, and this will allow them greater disposal of dietary carbohydrates. People with greater lean body mass will also need more protein intake in order to optimize protein synthesis. Larger body volume will mean they need a greater amount of dietary amino acids to initiate anabolic signaling in the muscle.

Age. This is a factor that affects all of us. As we age, our metabolic rate tends to decrease and thus decreases our caloric requirements. But it also affects the optimum intake of specific macronutrients. When we are younger (puberty to late teens), our bodies are much more sensitive to insulin, and growth is very much hormone-driven. Young individuals can tolerate much greater carbohydrate intake and require less protein to optimize muscle protein synthesis, as young people are much more sensitive to the anabolic effects of amino acids. Very rarely would I ever recommend a teenager consume more than 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, but there are exceptions (extreme endomorphs and people who are dieting).

As we move into adulthood, we become less tolerant of carbohydrates and less sensitive to the anabolic properties of insulin. Our muscle growth becomes less growth hormone (Insulin, GH, systemic IGF-1) driven and more driven by nutrition inputs like amino acids (and of course proper training). Adults are also slightly less sensitive to the anabolic effects of amino acids, and optimal protein requirements will increase as well. There is also a shift as we get into our 50s and 60s; we are much less insulin-sensitive and far less sensitive to the anabolic effects of amino acids. Thus, our carb intake will need to decrease and our protein intake will need to increase to compensate for these differences. So younger individuals should be able to consume more carbohydrates and less protein, but the older we get, the less carbohydrates and the more protein/fat we should consume, to make up our caloric balance.

Training Status. This is a pretty general term, but to be brief, it is the difference between the average Joe Blow going into the gym to work up a light sweat, and a hardcore bodybuilder going into the gym and slamming around heavy weights for an hour and a half. Obviously, all things being equal, the more intensely you train, the more calories will need to consume to optimize recovery and growth and make up for the amount of calories expended during training.

Someone undergoing a vigorous routine that causes more muscle damage will need more total calories and probably more carbohydrates to fuel training, possibly more protein for recovery, and maybe even more fat. So although total calories will need to increase or decrease, depending upon training frequency, intensity, and duration, the ratios of protein, carbohydrates, and fat may not change that much.

Another difference in training status is whether or not an individual is calorically-restricted or not. Reducing calories will actually increase protein requirements, while increasing calories will actually decrease protein requirements. Typically, I recommend increasing protein intake 10-15 percent during caloric restriction.

Body Type. This also has a major impact on your protein, carbohydrate, and fat recommendations. Endomorphs are individuals who tend to have more difficulty losing body fat while dieting and more difficulty keeping body fat off while bulking. For these individuals, they usually should consume fewer carbohydrates, because they tend to have lower insulin sensitivity, and they should consume more protein and fiber, because protein and fiber have beneficial effects on thermogenesis.

Compare this with typical ectomorphs who have difficulty gaining weight, but have no trouble losing body fat. These individuals should consume more carbohydrates and less protein, because they are more sensitive to insulin and they do not want to create excess thermogenesis from greater protein intake, which will make it even more difficult for them to gain weight and muscle. Obviously, mesomorphs will fall in-between endomorphs and ectomorphs, in terms of recommendations.

The first step to figuring out protein, carb, and fat intakes is to figure out your total calorie goals. Experimentation is the best way to do this, but multiplying your lean body mass by 16-17 and then adding or subtracting 500 calories, depending upon whether you want to bulk or cut, will get you in the ballpark. Now I could write an entire book on the many factors that dictate protein/carb/fat intakes for individual body types, but these are my general recommendations:

Endomorphs

Bulking

Protein: 1.15-1.25 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.4-0.6 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Cutting

Protein: 1.25-1.5 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.25-0.4 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Mesomorphs

Bulking

Protein: 1.05-1.15 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.25-0.4 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Cutting

Protein: 1.15-1.35 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.2-0.35 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Ectomorphs

Bulking

Protein: 1.0-1.15 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.3-0.45 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Cutting

Protein: 1.15-1.35 grams protein per pound bodyweight

Fats: 0.2-0.4 grams per pound bodyweight

Carbohydrates: Fill in remaining calories with carbohydrates

Obviously, you will want to adjust these numbers, based on how your individual metabolism responds and based on some of the other factors we talked about including age and training status. Just remember that there is no one right intake. Everyone is different, so use BOTH science and experimentation to determine what is optimal for you.

Layne Norton is a natural pro bodybuilder and pro powerlifter. He is a Ph.D. candidate in Nutritional Science at the University of Illinois. He offers contest prep, nutritional, and training consultation through his company BioLayne LLC. To learn more about Layne and the services he offers, visit http://www.biolayne.com.