Genos not elevating my igf-I've been on geno 5iu for many months from a sponsor here.
I'm getting all the benefits I expect from gh. All day fullness, excellent sleep. Feeling good.
Currently eating around 400 carbs a day.
No insulin use.
Also on test, primo, var, Winnie.
I got my labs done this week and threw in a igf level just to see.
113. Bottom end of normal range. Disappointing, I expected a higher number.
Is this a timing issue? I inject gh at night. Labs here drawn in the morning. although I thought igf levels would be more chronically elevated with gh use.
What would increase my igf levels? I'm not using more gh. If 5iu doesn't increase it I doubt 7 or 8 will do any better.
Insulin combined with the gh would increase it I assume. But insulin is probably too advanced for my level.
Increase carbs? Or more sugars? I tend to eat a lot of things like oatmeal, sweet potato, ezekial. "Bro foods" I guess but really that's what I like to eat. I also eat sugars peri workout. Bananas, Gatorade.
Or is this a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it."? Meaning, if I had never checked the igf level, I would have continued being happy and was seeing results from gh.
But damn, 113 is old man levels.
Thoughts?
-its timing I believe, part of the reason why testing for GH at the Olympics was deemed unreasonable. although im sure someone else can give you a better answer but I think I remember reading somewhere it dissipates after like 4 hours or something.
-HUGE issues, doesn't matter who you are GH will always raise IGF....
Here's a study where 9.5iu of Genos were used in 50 men and the average IGF after 3 weeks was around 800
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.11.6964You should EASILY be 350-400 range unless you have hep C or your liver is destroyed
-That's what I figured. Thanks for posting that.
No hep C and my liver values are fine, so I hope that's not the issue.
I don't know. I think I'm going to recheck igf. Maybe increase carb intake.
-Same thing happened to me.
my igf basal levels suck, usually on 70's range.. little gh and they go to 90's.. when i increase dosage they went to 165 max at daily 15-16iu even with slin..
I wish i can elevate my igf much more with gh+slin combo..
-maybe an issue with your liver converting to igf?
-I had think liver stress but when i had done s?runs almost everything comes near perfect with liver beside 2 enzymes that was slight higher then optimal levels.
Shitty lazy liver!
Since i'm E2 prone, i was using AI/AE very often and sometimes higher dosage so it can mess with gh/igf axis as well..
I'm fighting againsty this to become a better conditioned and bigger bodybuilder so i had now back to basics with much lower intake for my usual and i will try to built from there.
Just doing right now:
Mast P. 300/wk
Test P. 300/wk
Tren Ace 500/wk
T4 200mcg/ed
this week adjusted my gh intake for daily 16iu alongside 10iu Slin R pre workout.
had removed Ralox (i was Adex long time user before) and still feeling good inregard e2.
so i think i found my balance with this stack.
with no E2 anciliares beside mast, i hope to get things better with gh/igf axis right now.
So assuming Liver is ok, E2 is optimal, Thyroid function supported by T4 i should have now all things needed to bring igf up...
wondering what else i may do to bring my igf to desired levels
-I don't think it's a waste. I just think I'm not getting the full benefits. But I notice a differences on vs off gh. I'm leaner, I tolerate test better, better recovery. Gh alone has biological activity, not just igf. But more igf would definitely help.
-
So you're in the low igf club too. It hasn't held you back too much, you're a beast, so I have no excuses.
I too am estro sensitive. From what I've read raloxifene doesn't decrease igf nearly to the extent that tamoxifen does. Some sources say raloxifene doesn't affect igf at all, some say it lowers is 15%, which is not much. A 15% decrease would still only put my igf around 140.
I'm on a little Aromasin and rapid because I have a little pea of gyno behind my left nipple. Estro was still 150 even with Pfizer Aromasin on 525 test per week.
I'm going to wait until the gyno resolves, taper off the ralox. Retest igf this time pinning gh 3 hrs before. I'll get a gh level too. Might be several weeks until that happens but I will update
-Yep, Ralox do not mess with igf like others so that's why i choose to stick with it more recently.
now pushed it out with this stack. just mast p is getting all nice with E2.
usually with only 200- 250mg Test i could have E2 at 113 - 145ng/ml so i used 1mg anastrozol for every 200mg Testo alone.
when other compounds are in i had increased a lot anastro so that could had messed with my igf as well.
end of prep Letrozol and then Asin after prep to avoid rebound so.. lot of things against gh/igf axis.
Don't Forget about thyroid support after a while under gh and slin does the trick too, inregard igf.
is a synergy to all comes perfect at the end.
i had more of a basic cycle right now to found my balance inregard this and also to spend more $$ on gh to break up plateaus.
will start stacking soon.
My s?runs protocol was gh injekted im on shoulder, 3hrs before blood drawns.
4iu usually comes hgh as 9 - 11ng/ml igf around 90's... when i use higher dose, those leves goes up as well
Ovo sve sumira manje vise
-I'm seriously confused by this. How could you be so big and lean and taking hgh and have igf levels that low? Maybe something off with the test? Mine are almost 3x that high on no hgh on 400mg test and 600mg eq with aromasin and yet I don't really feel as though I grow nearly as fast as I should or have any benefits. Hgh in itself has a lot of benefits besides igf though correct?
they could have high amounts of autocrine/locally produced IGF-1 (produced in muscle) this can't be measured by a blood test because it is local to that tissue only.
one of the main benefits of high levels of systemic/liver produced IGF-1 is that it acts locally to muscle too but it's not just in muscle, on cartilage and other tissues which maybe isn't so much of a benefit! (hand growth, jaw growth etc)
could be they produce high amount of muscle-made IGF-1 but low systemic and liver derived IGF-1.
in your case mate it's really probably down to 2 options
1. your gh is bunk or degraded
2. you have a condition that effects liver's ability to conver gh to IGF-1 a baseline reading would have really helped, if you had lower IGF-1 reading than when on GH then at least you could be confident that GH is real and likely an issue with liver etc (because liver is producing some IGF-1 in that case with the help of GH)
if baseline was the same score? then gh likely bunk or just badly degraded. gh serum needed in that case.
Rasplet:
I got my latest igf reading back. But first I'll say what I changed.
I kept the same gh dose. 6iu genos split twice a day. I added insulin. My first time using insulin. Started with 10iu. Then increased to 20 preworkout. If it's earlier in the day I'll use regular. Later in the day I use log. Sometimes I would combine them to peak at the same time. I used joey's shake protocol during the workout and ate real food post. After a couple of weeks I added some insulin with breakfast too.
What I learned about insulin:
It's all about timing. If I time it right I only need about 6 carbs per iu of Humalog. For some reason, with regular insulin I need more. Maybe 8 carbs per iu. I thought this was a timing issue at first so I experimented with injecting insulin, sitting in my kitchen with a glucometer, a stopwatch, and some glycofuse. Sipping when my blood sugar dropped. And it was pretty consistent as far as the difference in carb needs with log vs regular. Anyone else notice this?
Holy shit I'm the biggest I've ever been. All in 3-4 weeks. I've put on about 20lbs. Still have abs. But very watery. So I'm interested to see where I'm at after dropping the insulin out in a couple of weeks.
I also am tired most of the day. Without caffiene I feel like someone slipped me a few benadryls. I don't see how people take 100's of iu per day, I'd be a zombie.
My igf with the addition of he insulin is 230. So, double what it was, but not where it should be. I'm not going to sweat it too much. I like the way I look, I like the results I'm getting. In the future I'll look to add saizen, but with 008's recent sale I'm stocked up on genos for quite some time.
